tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-51706929700622889592024-02-02T06:55:58.388-08:00Dialogue with Kamal SalibiKamal Salibihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5170692970062288959.post-36626941759451056262010-07-26T09:00:00.001-07:002010-08-04T08:04:07.072-07:00Sundial Experiments in Abha, Saudi Arabia: Biblical Jerusalem was in that Vicinity<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2N7cvVQP4-rae7eoyL1BmIPiYqzByi8mHrvcdJ7eC_FAdk4FYh1C1KsNBWWsdP7zg2Qrw9ovlQ-Ie4cjZhnJIESXefW7rtQXz7RCv78uSU0R5l5eSTiPli50XC1StqBQDfUpZzLYP8Gs/s1600/240620101269.jpg"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh2N7cvVQP4-rae7eoyL1BmIPiYqzByi8mHrvcdJ7eC_FAdk4FYh1C1KsNBWWsdP7zg2Qrw9ovlQ-Ie4cjZhnJIESXefW7rtQXz7RCv78uSU0R5l5eSTiPli50XC1StqBQDfUpZzLYP8Gs/s320/240620101269.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5500848677327047186" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiadi-pnOcsJtBrhb85csRLut_OLSlBT0pn8qWX1VPofN0iFJCFuiO6hsvhLqGqqtvJEDY6ZiN4rw1Da_Wpci731-0hasu-w1Z9j8UpMla9d6UrX5Gcl50zFID_HY3Cw_4y1oFfGd05DJg/s1600/240620101270.jpg"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiadi-pnOcsJtBrhb85csRLut_OLSlBT0pn8qWX1VPofN0iFJCFuiO6hsvhLqGqqtvJEDY6ZiN4rw1Da_Wpci731-0hasu-w1Z9j8UpMla9d6UrX5Gcl50zFID_HY3Cw_4y1oFfGd05DJg/s320/240620101270.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5500848310017680354" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNn_D2ZWkrBIQU6f9hx9zc86BV-G9JJPdivcjCcxuObT5YPQ1pQ8GZ9L31vk2Oe_cwfAi4MZ6e9P7DTPxBhzVLCSlevSMrNK4_pFOfpcyGs9A5shC9Zwnb-ui0gFq6dGVjdZvznL8atvs/s1600/240620101271.jpg"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNn_D2ZWkrBIQU6f9hx9zc86BV-G9JJPdivcjCcxuObT5YPQ1pQ8GZ9L31vk2Oe_cwfAi4MZ6e9P7DTPxBhzVLCSlevSMrNK4_pFOfpcyGs9A5shC9Zwnb-ui0gFq6dGVjdZvznL8atvs/s320/240620101271.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5500847968117545394" /></a><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6pJ9REHFDJBcH-Zl_kvwqMLSCeYfx_Ut9xfSszebSV_Mkb3l_Mr1xKmKepLRcQxNJhIsSkUkIE4MwahyphenhyphenG0BNWqFB63O-ymPyELZMWANHSanteAB2u_Kw7OZ-Y0ctp1XvrDIPtvGvjwHk/s1600/240620101272.jpg"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj6pJ9REHFDJBcH-Zl_kvwqMLSCeYfx_Ut9xfSszebSV_Mkb3l_Mr1xKmKepLRcQxNJhIsSkUkIE4MwahyphenhyphenG0BNWqFB63O-ymPyELZMWANHSanteAB2u_Kw7OZ-Y0ctp1XvrDIPtvGvjwHk/s320/240620101272.jpg" border="0" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5500847579054303938" /></a><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><br /></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family:Arial;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">Pictures in descending order: 7</span></span></i><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">.30 am shadow is</span></span></i></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;"> </span></span></i><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">over yellow stick (pic 1)</span></span></i></span></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family:Arial;"><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">and next moves clockwise. </span></span></i></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Arial;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">At 9.25 am (pic 2)and 10.30 </span></span></i></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">am</span></span></i></span></span></span></i></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Arial;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">(pic 3),and </span></span></i></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-family:Arial;"><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">last 11.20 </span></span></i></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; "><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">am</span></span></i></span></span></span></i></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; "><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">(pic 4)the shadow is small and back over the yellow stick to cross</span></span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;"> </span></span></i><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">counter-clockwise and reduces to null at noon and grow opposite at noon</span></span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;"> </span></span></i><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">and again grow and move back clockwise 10 degrees and on</span></span></i></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;"> </span></span></i><span class="apple-style-span"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:small;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#333333;">counterclockwise.</span></span></i></span></span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Arial;"><i><br /></i></span></div></span><h3 style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:14.25pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Dr. Nurdin al-Mustaqim has conducted an experiment twice on 21 &23</span></span><sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span></sup><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">June 2010, which is the summer solstice, in the city of </span></span><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=caps%20and%20small%20caps&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Abha in Asir</span></span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, Saudi Arabia (18° 12' 59" N</span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span></span><span class="slash"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">/</span></span></span><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">42° 30' 19" E ), to demonstrate the point made by Mr. Anthony Lias in the </span></span><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2010/02/sundial-of-king-ahaz.html"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">postscript</span></span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> to the second edition of my book </span></span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The Historicity of Biblical Israel</span></span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">…, and has kindly reported to me the following supplemented by pictures above , which </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">are from 23 June which happen to be the </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:'Times New Roman';"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: normal;">clearest</span></span>:</span></span></h3> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><i><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></i></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Dr. al-Mustaqim:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify;tab-stops:351.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">I CAN SWEAR AND GUARANTEE THAT SINCE 10:30AM WHEN I STARTED TO MAKE REGULAR OBSERVATION (21 JUNE) THE SUN WAS GOING COUNTER-COCKWISE FOR A FULL 180 DEGREES UNTIL 2:00 PM AND AFTER THAT IT HAD GONE BACK IN THE OPPOSITE WAY CLOCKWISE FOR 20 DEGREES AT MY LAST READING OF 3:30pm. SOME PERIOD WAS UNREADABLE DUE TO CLOUDY WEATHER. I GUESS THIS WILL PROVE THE POINT ANYWAY AND I KEEP LOOKING TO SUNSET AND MAY REPEAT IT IN FOLLOWING DAYS.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">WELL, I WANT TO SAY FOR THE RECORD THAT I PERFORMED THE SUNDIAL EXPERIMENT ON 21 TO 23 JUNE 2010 HERE IN ABHA,THE HEARTLAND OF ASIR, AND MY EYES AND THE PICTURES TAKEN CONFIRM THE REVERSE MOTION TWICE IN THE DAY BY WHAT I THOUGHT 20 DEGREES WITHOUT EVER SEEING THESE COMMENTS BEFORE. IF IT IS 10 DEGREES THEN LET IT BE 10, AS IT CAN BE MEASURED OR POSTED FOR ALL BY DR.SALIBI. TO ME IT IS A GREAT STEP FORWARD FOR MANKIND AND HISTORY THAT HIS DISCOVERY ABOUT BIBLICAL GEOGRAPHY MUST BE TAKEN AS WORKING BASIS WITH ALL THAT GOES WITH IT. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">MAY I THEN ADD THAT THIS SHOWS THE HIGH LEVEL OF ASTRONOMICAL KNOWLEDGE AT THE TIME OF KING AHAZ/EZEKIAH AND THIS IS THE TESTIMONY OF THEIR SCIENCE WHICH THEY HAVE WANTED TO PASS ON TO US OVER TIME BY </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-size:medium;">THEIR RECORDING THE THORAT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS SO TRUTH WOULD REMAIN UNTIL US.WE MUST THANK KING AHAZ FOREMOST AS HE IS WITH US NOW.IT IS LIKE A GPS SATELLITE POSITIONING WHICH WILL ENABLE ONE TO FIND A POSITION ANYWHERE,ANYTIME . FOR THOSE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT LACK OF ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE AND ARE ASKING US TO PRODUCE KING DAVID/DAUD'S DRIVER'S LICENSE FROM THE GROUND BEFORE THEY WOULD BELIEVE AND NOT REMAIN IN THEIR OWN FAIRY TALES,I SAY THIS IS ASTRONOMICAL ARCHEOLOGY IN FULL SWING,WHAT CAN THEY PRODUCE?</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">KS: I owe a great debt of gratitude to Dr. Nur who spent three days in Abha observing the movement of the shadow of what stood for the gnomon of a sundial. By means of this experiment, he demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that the astronomical event occurring in Old Testament Jerusalem, as reported in Isaiah 38:7,8 and 2 Kings 20:18-12 and explained by Mr. Anthony Lias in terms of a 'Jerusalem' located in Asir rather in Palestine, is the sort of astronomical event that occurs regularly in the tropical land of Asir, twice a day, during the period of the summer solstice. The same event cannot possibly occur at any time of year in a Jerusalem located in Palestine, well within the temperate zone. </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>Kamal Salibihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900noreply@blogger.com22tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5170692970062288959.post-6527506633531001382010-02-05T08:41:00.001-08:002010-07-27T09:53:49.767-07:00The Sundial of King Ahaz<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align: center;margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; line-height: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">POSTSCRIPT TO THE SECOND EDITION OF THE HISTORICITY OF BIBLICAL ISRAEL: STUDIES IN 1& 2 SAMUEL (2010)</span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:center;line-height:normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><br /></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:center;line-height:normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">The Sundial of King Ahaz</span></span></span><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:center;line-height:normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">by Anthony Lias </span></span></span><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:center;line-height:normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><br /></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height: normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height: normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">In 1985, Professor Kamal Salibi, of the American University of Beirut, wrote a brilliant book entitled The Bible Came from Arabia. Having had unexpected access to a gazetteer of Saudi Arabia published at Riyadh in 1977, his study of it confirmed him in the belief that the place-names of the Hebrew Bible – the actual location of which has always troubled Biblical scholars if taken to apply to what we now call Palestine – fitted perfectly if applied to the region called Asir, situated in West Arabia abutting on the Red Sea.</span></span></span><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.1in;text-align:justify;line-height: 18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> As someone who has a working knowledge of the original Hebrew vocabulary of the Bible, and who has published three books on place-names myself, I found the hundreds of examples listed by Professor Salibi absolutely convincing. However, I have recently found what I regard as a further powerful proof that Professor Salibi’s argument is correct. To explain why, I must point out that Asir lies (and lay) well within the tropic zone (between 17 and 19 degrees north of the Equator). <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.1in;text-align:justify;line-height: 18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Now according to Isaiah 38:7,8, the prophet Isaiah (early eighth century BC) tells King Hezekiah in Jerusalem that ‘the Lord’ will give him a ‘sign’, namely this: “I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of [your father, King] Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.” <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.1in;text-align:justify;line-height: 18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">This retrograde motion of a shadow cast by a gnomon (i.e., a sundial pointer) has traditionally been regarded as a ‘miracle’, because at the latitude of the present-day Jerusalem (31 degrees 47 minutes north of the Equator), such a motion would be impossible. However, and I quote a respected figure, the English mathematician/astronomer Thomas Keith (1759-1824): “If a horizontal dial, which shows the hour by the top of the perpendicular gnomon, be made for a place in the torrid zone [i.e. the tropics], whenever the sun’s declination exceeds the latitude of the place, the shadow of the gnomon will go back twice in the day, once in the forenoon and once in the afternoon, and the greater the difference between the latitude and the sun’s declination is, the farther the shadow will go back.” Thomas Keith, A New Treatise On The Use Of The Globes. Revised Edition. London, 1855, pp. 336-7. <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.1in;text-align:justify;line-height: 18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Now according to Professor Salibi, the original Jerusalem of Isaiah’s time will not have been in today’s Palestine, but in Asir, and within the torrid zone. Therefore the retrograde shadow on the ‘dial of Ahaz’ will not have been a ‘miracle’, but a fact. And no doubt an experiment could be set up in Asir at the present time to prove this. (N.B: since declination is the angular distance north or south of any heavenly body from the celestial equator, and since the highest possible declination of the sun is 23 degrees 28 minutes, it is plain that during certain months of the year the shadow will go back for every location within Asir.) It is possible that Professor Salibi is unaware of these astronomical details, which I believe are a vindication of his thesis. <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.1in;text-align:justify;line-height: 18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">The story about the odd behaviour of the sundial of King Ahaz also occurs in 2 Kings, 20:8-12. Here, the story makes it obvious that Isaiah knew that the “shadow of the degrees” on the sundial would go back, and that King Hezekiah did not. My theory is that Isaiah (who is thought by some Biblical scholars to have acquired some astronomical knowledge from the Assyrians), duped Hezekiah into thinking he was witnessing a ‘miracle’, while in reality he was witnessing a genuine phenomenon in the Jerusalem of Asir whose existence is proposed by Professor Salibi, not the later one of Palestine. The fact of the retrograde motion of the shadow of a gnomon within the tropics is independently confirmed and fully explained by Denis Savoie in his book Sundials, Design, Construction and Use (English translation by Bob Mizon, Springer Praxis Publishing, 2009), Appendix F (6), pp.163-4. <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:.1in;text-align:justify;line-height: 18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">I must conclude by saying that Professor Salibi nowhere impugns the religious message of the Hebrew Bible. His thesis, in The Bible Came from Arabia and in the third part of the present work, centres purely on the correct location of places mentioned in the Bible. [Note: for anyone interested, Denis Savoie provides a diagram in Appendix F (6) of his book demonstrating the shadow’s retrograde motion, as well as an explanatory mathematical formula.] <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align: justify;line-height:normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Posted by Kamal Salibi at </span></span></span><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html" title="permanent link"><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">9:19 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height: normal;mso-outline-level:4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="comments"></a></span></span><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">13 comments:<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c1910734687343421743"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/11194089128934330125"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coord="" spt="75" preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f" style="font-size:21600,21600;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:formulas><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:formulas><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:path extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" connecttype="rect"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><o:lock ext="edit" aspectratio="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></o:lock></v:path></v:stroke></v:shapetype><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_1" spid="_x0000_i1037" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7N5hj7Rl-yQ/SXp1eORj7VI/AAAAAAAAADU/LGjWK0lFOu8/S45/P1000807.jpg" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/11194089128934330125" style="width:26.25pt; height:26.25pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.jpg" title="P1000807"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/11194089128934330125"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">mohamad jalloul</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Interesting argument. I would surely read the book at first occasion.<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258522247963#c1910734687343421743" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 17, 2009 9:30 PM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c4708484492380470862"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/14203126575722586185"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_2" spid="_x0000_i1036" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/14203126575722586185" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/14203126575722586185"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">aboualfa</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">This article is just what i needed to furthur mess up my conception of history and it is a great feeling to know more than the others!!<br />I wonder if the writer's english quote of Isaiah 38:7,8 is what Dr. Salibi would have translated from old hebrew!?[ in terms of wording not the concept]<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258564411429#c4708484492380470862" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 18, 2009 9:13 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c941398701185912286"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_3" spid="_x0000_i1035" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">to aoualfa: the translation from the Hebrew is correct in all the versions I know, including the Arabic one by Van Dyck/Butrus Bustani/Yusuf alAsir<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258566923855#c941398701185912286" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 18, 2009 9:55 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c8936999031886557504"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/09196913353161920620"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_4" spid="_x0000_i1034" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/09196913353161920620" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/09196913353161920620"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Wolfganggr</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Anthony Lias has really a brilliant mind.<br />If i knew the text, which i did not, i surely would have taken it as a parallel to the famous 'sun stand still above gideon' passage in judges, because this behaviour of a sun-dial was unknown to me.<br />Its really fascinating you can make such findings in a text which has been written 2800 years ago and has been studied for more than, lets say 300 years.<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258568682376#c8936999031886557504" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 18, 2009 10:24 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c8780199959014215773"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_5" spid="_x0000_i1033" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">The Hebrew for "degrees" in the original is MA`ALOTH, which can mean "steps", as in a staircase. This his given rise to much speculation as to what the "sundial" of Ahaz was like. That this sundial involved a "shadow" being cast on "steps" marking degrees is certain. What I would like to subject to further inquiry is the word rendered in the standing interpretations as the personal name "Ahaz" (cf. Arabic AKHADHA, 'take, hold"), because the text does not plainly indicae that it was the name of King Ahaz, the father of King Hezekiah. This it could well have been, but not necessarily so. (For example, it could have been, in the context, an auxiliary verb. Do not quote me on this unless I give my OK)The issue, however, does not make the least difference to the argument presented by Mr. Anthony Lias.<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258572359974#c8780199959014215773" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 18, 2009 11:25 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c8721817511343607965"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_6" spid="_x0000_i1032" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">My last comment was a postscript to my response to the query of Aboualfa. ks<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258572434048#c8721817511343607965" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 18, 2009 11:27 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c6600943635271810990"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_7" spid="_x0000_i1031" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">I fully endorse the comment of Wolfganggr. In barely two pages of text, modestly yet elegantly expressed, he has brought about a revolution not only in knowledge, but in the variety of surprising ways in which virtual certainty can be reached.<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1258608547765#c6600943635271810990" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 18, 2009 9:29 PM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c5752600302463337762"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_8" spid="_x0000_i1030" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Wolfgang Grassmann said:<br /><br />i could prove the effect of the sundial with use of the astronomy-program 'Stellarium'.<br />I wonder why i haven't thougt at that at once.<br />I took the city of Abha as a Reference and i took to be the<br />Date of the Summer-Solstitium, which means the 21 of June.<br /><br />I was able not only to prove the mere existence of the effect,<br />but also its magnitude which is very near to the ten degrees as described<br />in the bible.<br /><br />The Azimut-Angles starts ( at sunrise , i used sunrise, but the numbers are fully the same at sunset )<br />at 65° 1' and it goes up to 74° 59'53'' which is approximately 75°. From that point on the shadow<br />goes back to lower values.<br />So the difference between the values is exactly ten degree, as prophecied by isahja.<br /><br />This was far more that i ever imagined. :-))))<br /><br /><br />With all best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1259261675864#c5752600302463337762" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 26, 2009 10:54 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c5369360084540315496"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_9" spid="_x0000_i1029" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">To Dr. Grassmann: With the information provided by the Biblical books of Isaiah and 2 Kings regarding the contrary movements of the shadow of the gnomon on the surface of the sundial of Ahaz, to what dregree can one determine the exact location of this sundial, and the time of year in which the vent took place -- if at all?<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1259305597387#c5369360084540315496" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 26, 2009 11:06 PM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c4109088009647128409"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_10" spid="_x0000_i1028" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">correct vent took place = EVENT took place<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1259305682627#c4109088009647128409" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">November 26, 2009 11:08 PM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c4236663156526985365"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_11" spid="_x0000_i1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8QfQDiCTHHwx3SAKDKBVnnQBNSyo8POpHIJ4vPE6mtrPPxamLHA7mbIbpp3UfMOUrXSzSLN2iPMJt6fCanTku6HJRhcIWLXdzM-xk4vmc3bT59YPJY0wtdrDXdfs3ZWO-FR7a2PA14gc/s45/ks+pic.jpg" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:26.25pt; height:26.25pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image003.jpg" title="ks%2Bpic"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Hi Rami. Your wustion (no.2) has kept me awake nights, and no I can approach a fully satisfactory answer where the supposed name of King Ahaz (not at all central to the argument of Anthony Lias) is concerned. I would read the word as the present participle (ism fa'il) of the Hebrew AHAZ (Arabic AKHADHA), "taking". Accordingly, the Hebrew of Isaiah 38:8 would read, word for word: "Behold, I am bringing back the shadow of the degrees going down(YOREDAH, in the singular; hence uncertain so far)on the degrees that are taking(OHEZ, not AHAZ)the Sun (meaning, as in Arabic, "that follow the sun") in the opposite direction. And the Sun went back ten degrees on the degrees that are going down." This means, "Behold, I am bringing back the shadow of the degrees ten degrees on the scale (dial)that goes by the Sun in the opposite direction, and the Sun went back en degrees on the descending scale.<br />Had the original Hebrew said AHAZ HAM-MELEKH instead of simply 'HZ.which is readable as OHEZ, this retranslation would not hold. It still needs some touching up where I put in the query.<br />Thank you for calling my attention to a matter I should have noticed myself.<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1260033400612#c4236663156526985365" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">December 5, 2009 9:16 AM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c7266937602790746693"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/14203126575722586185"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_12" spid="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/14203126575722586185" style="width:12pt; height:12pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif" title="b16-rounded"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/14203126575722586185"><b><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">aboualfa</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Well, i wondered at the beginning how come Dr. Salibi let Isaiah 38:7,8 slide without his personal touch!! It turned out you didn't after all! And the re-translation solidified the meaning and was not peripheral to it which made it more convincing.<br />rami aboualfa<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://kamalsalibi.blogspot.com/2009/11/postscript-to-forthcoming-2nd-edition.html?showComment=1260139180382#c7266937602790746693" title="comment permalink"><span style="color:#473624;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">December 6, 2009 2:39 PM</span></span></span></a><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><a name="c8056516209625842298"></a></span></span><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_13" spid="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8QfQDiCTHHwx3SAKDKBVnnQBNSyo8POpHIJ4vPE6mtrPPxamLHA7mbIbpp3UfMOUrXSzSLN2iPMJt6fCanTku6HJRhcIWLXdzM-xk4vmc3bT59YPJY0wtdrDXdfs3ZWO-FR7a2PA14gc/s45/ks+pic.jpg" href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900" style="width:26.25pt; height:26.25pt;visibility:visible;mso-wrap-style:square" button="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:fill detectmouseclick="t"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\TOSHIBA\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image003.jpg" title="ks%2Bpic"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></v:imagedata></v:fill></v:shape></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:33.75pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:18.0pt"><a href="http://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900"><b><span style="color:#956839;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kamal Salibi</span></span></span></b></a><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></span></span></b><b><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">said...<o:p></o:p></span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:2.4pt; margin-left:.5in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="color:#29303B;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">I have checked, and the queried part of he tradslaton is correct. YOREDHAH is the adverbial form of YOREDH, which in Hebrew is identical with the feminine (not "singular" which, though correct, was a typing mistake) fo YOREDH, meaning "going wond," and hence means "going down" as an adverb. Again, I thank you for your perceptive -- and very helpful -- comment on a subject which may be abstruse, yet is nonetheless of the first importance.</span></span><o:p></o:p></span></p>Kamal Salibihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900noreply@blogger.com12tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5170692970062288959.post-52006532551632444272009-11-29T09:09:00.001-08:002010-07-27T09:50:53.053-07:00<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:150%"><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span> </span><span> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Supplement for the Second Edition of</span></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:150%"><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 72px; ">Who Was Jesus?</span></span></span></b></p> <p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:150%"><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">How</span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Much</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Can</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Be</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Known</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">about</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">the</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Koranic</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Jesus</span></b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">?</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The Israelite priesthood was apparently regarded from an early time as the preserve of the tribe of Levi, with members of this tribe offering priestly services wherever they were needed (see Judges 17:6b-13). At some point, however, as the Israelite Yahweh cult became more organized, the priesthood came to be restricted exclusively to one particular Levitical lineage: the house of Aaron who was allegedly the brother of Moses, the first priest of Israel and the man originally given charge of the Ark of the Covenant (the sacred wooden chest in which the spirit of the invisible Yahweh was supposed to reside). </span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The last officially recognized Aaronic chief priest, whose name was Abiathar, served under King David (c. 1005-964 BC), but was made to share his office with a man called Zadok who was apparently neither of Aaronic nor even of Levitical descent.</span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Later, when Solomon succeeded his father David as king, Abiathar was sacked from the chief priesthood and banished to an agricultural estate that his family owned in Anathoth (1 Kings 2:26; Joshua 21:18) − today, almost certainly the village called </span></span><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Antutah</span></span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> (Arabicized form of the Biblical Hebrew </span></span><b><i><span style=" line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Anatot, <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">name changed today to <b><i>al-Mubarakah</i></b></span></span></span></span></i></b><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">),</span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> in the fertile hinterland of the Saudi Arabian coastal town of Jizan, close by the border with Yemen. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">From that time on, the chief priesthood of the Davidic kingdom – under Solomon, then under the kings of Judah who were his successors – became the exclusive preserve of the house of Zadok. This same Zadokite priestly establishment continued to dominate Israelite religious affairs following the Babylonian conquest of Judah in 586 BC and the deportation of its leading citizens to Iraq. In the meanwhile, the Aaronic priesthood had somehow managed to survive in Anathoth, probably supported by a body of die-hard Israelites who refused to accept the sacerdotal authority of the Zadokites. Among the Aaronic priests of Anathoth was the Prophet Jeremiah, who predicted – and lived to witness – the downfall of Judah, and who vanished from history in obscure circumstances shortly thereafter. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Apart from identifying “Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah” as being one “of the priests who were in Anathoth” (Jeremiah 1:1), the Received Text of the Hebrew Bible, which was compiled and redacted by the Zadokites and their associates in post-exilic times, has nothing to say about the house of Aaron following the dismissal of Abiathar from the chief priesthood. And nothing would have been known about the fate of the Aaronic priestly line after the mysterious disappearance of Jeremiah, had it not been for the Koran, where it identifies Maryam – the Koranic Mary – as an Israelite temple figure of unequivocally Aaronic lineage (see chapter four). As the son of Maryam, Issa − the Koranic Jesus who was believed to be virgin-born − would have naturally inherited his mother’s Aaronic lineage, apparently to become the head of the house of Aaron in due course. The fact that the Koran recognizes him as </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">al-Mas</span></i></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">ih</span></i></span></b></span><b><i><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">,</span></span></span></i></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> or “the Christ,”</span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">indicates that he was recognized by his followers, in his time, as the long-awaited priestly messiah whose mission was to end the prolonged Zadokite usurpation of the Israelite priesthood, and to restore it to the house of Aaron to which it legitimately belonged. </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The Koranic juxtaposition between the Aaronic Issa and the Zadokite Ezra (see chapter four) seems to indicate a historical connection between the careers of the two men. Ezra, who was active in the middle decades of the fifth century BC, was the person chiefly responsible for the post-exilic revival of the law of Moses, on the basis of which the scattered remnants of the Israelite people were reorganized under Zadokite leadership as the religious community of the “Jews” (</span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">yehuwdim</span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, from </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">yehuwdah</span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, the Hebrew for Judah). Disregarding the fact that an Aaronic priesthood still existed in Arabia in his time, and that this priesthood probably commanded an Israelite following of some size, Ezra claimed for himself an Aaronic lineage to which he was not entitled (Ezra 7:1-5). Alternatively, it was his Jewish followers who fabricated this lineage for him during his lifetime, or following his death. This daring action, whether on his part or that of his partisans, would alone have sufficed to elicit an open confrontation on the issue between the houses of Zadok and Aaron. And there is good indication that a contest over the possession of the Ark of Covenant – to the Israelites, the ultimate touchstone of genuine priestly standing – may have been at the heart of the matter.</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Of the fate of the Ark of the Covenant after it came to be installed in the temple of Solomon (see 1 Kings 8:1-11), the Received Text of the Hebrew Bible, curiously, has nothing to say, leaving the ultimate fate of the Ark unknown. However, in a book on the antiquities of Arabia written in the early decades of the eighth century AD, an early Muslim historian and epigraphist, Wahb ibn Munabbih </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">(</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Kita</span></i></span></b></span><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">b al-tija</span></i></span></span></b><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">n li-mulu</span></i></span></span></b><b><span style=" line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">k</span></i></span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"> </span></i></span></span><b><span style="line-height:150%;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Hi</span></i></span></span></b><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">myar</span></i></span></span></b><i><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">,</span> </span></span></i><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Hyderabad Deccan, AH 1347, pp.179-180), reports that the Israelites once deposited the Ark in Mecca as they fled through the Hijaz in panic before a powerful coalition of enemies, and that the Ark remained thereafter in Mecca until Issa ibn Maryam arrived in the city to claim it. Wahb, who was the descendant of a prominent Jewish family from the Yemen, was well versed in the Israelite lore of Arabia. What lends special credence to his Ark story is, first, the casual manner in which he relates it, without comment or elaboration, and, second, the fact that he relates it in the context of the history of Mecca, and not that of the Israelites, about which he has much to say elsewhere. Add to this the fact that his story of the Ark makes good historical sense. In a struggle between Issa and the Zadokites over the legitimate right to the Israelite priesthood, what success could have been more dramatic for an Aaronic messiah than suddenly managing to find and take possession of the long lost and virtually forgotten Ark? </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">The question of the Ark aside, Wahb’s account of its concealment in Mecca and of its subsequent reclamation from there by Issa in that city seems to assume, first, that pre-exilic Israelite history ran its course in Arabia and second, that the geographical setting of Issa’s career </span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">was equally Arabian. It was in Arabia, apparently, that he died and was buried. This, at least according to a story originally told by an Arabian notable from Medina, in the Hijaz, and quoted by the great Arab scholar </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">al-<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">T</span></span></b></span><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">abar<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">i</span></span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> (d. AD 923) in his major historical work </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">T<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">ari</span></span></i></span><i><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">kh al-rusul wal-mul<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">u</span></span></span></i><i><span style="line-height:150%; Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">k</span></span></i><span style=" line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> (Cairo edition, 1967, vol.1, pp.603-4): </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-align:justify;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">One of our womenfolk had made a vow to climb to the peak of <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><i>al-</i></span></span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;"><i>Jamma'</i></span></span></b></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, a mountain in al-</span></span><span style="line-height:150%; Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Aq<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">i</span></span></span><span style=" line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">q, [south of] Medina. So I climbed with her until we reached the mountain top. There stood an enormous sarcophagus with two huge tombstones, one [at each end], which bore inscriptions in a writing unknown to me. I carried the two stones back with me. But as I was crossing a passage down the mountainside, the two of them became too difficult for me to carry; so I dropped one and descended with the other. I asked people who knew Syriac if they could read [the inscription on that stone], but they could not. Then I showed it to people from the Yemen who could write [Hebrew], or who wrote the South Arabian script, and they could not read it. So, when I found no one who could make sense of [the inscription], I put it away at home under a chest, where it remained for years. Then some Persians arrived [in Medina] from [the town of] </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">M<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">a</span></span></b></span><b><span style="line-height: 150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">ha</span></span></b><span style=" line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> to buy beads. I asked them: “Do you have a written language?”</span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">They answered: “We do.”</span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">So I brought out the [inscription] for them [to see] and, behold, they were reading it, as it was in their script: “This is the grave of Issa ibn Maryam, the messenger of God to the people of this land.”</span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">It turned out that [Persians] had inhabited the area at that time, and [Issa] died in their midst, so they buried him on top of the mountain. </span></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><o:p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">This story not only confirms the location of the career of Issa ibn Maryam in the Arabian province of the Hijaz, but also relates it to the period of Persian rule in the lands of the Near East (535-330 BC). More interesting, however, is the fact that </span></span><span style="line-height:150%;font-family:BookRIIFS;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">¤</span></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">abar</span></span><span style="line-height:150%; font-family:BookRIIFS;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">•</span></span><span style="line-height:150%; Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> was aware that the Issa who was buried on top of Mount </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Jamm<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">a'</span></span></b></span><span style="line-height: 150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, south of Medina, was a person entirely different from the Jesus who was crucified by the Jews in Jerusalem during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberius. “I have been told,” he says, “that the man taken to be Issa and crucified in his place was an Israelite called </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Ishu</span></span></b></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> bin Fand<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">a</span></span></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">ra” (<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">T</span></span></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">abar<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">i</span></span></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, vol.1, p.605). This name is none other than the pejorative name </span><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Yeshu'</span></span></b></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> ben Panth</span></span><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">era, or ben Pandera (see chapter three), by which the Jewish Talmud refers to the Davidic Jesus who was crucified in the Palestinian Jerusalem, and whom we have agreed to call Jeshu bar Nagara (see chapter seven). </span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify;text-indent:.5in;line-height:150%"><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">With respect to the dating of the career of the Koranic Jesus who was Issa ibn Maryam, the Damascene Muslim historian, Abul-Qasim Ibn </span></span><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">As<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:BookRIIFS;">a</span></span></span></b><b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">kir</span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">, writing in the twelfth century AD (</span><b><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">Si</span></span></i></b></span><b><i><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">rat </span>al-Sayyid al<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:georgia;">-Masih</span></span></span></i></b><b><span style=" line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">,</span></span></b><span style="line-height:150%;Garamond","serif"font-family:";"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> Suleiman Murad, ed., Amman, 1996, par.10), cites a tradition related by an early Muslim authority who died in</span><span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;"> </span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">AD 721 which asserts that the “ascension” of Issa to God’s presence occurred 933 years before the start of the Muslim era (AD 622). Unless another explanation can be given to this tradition, it means that the “ascension” of Issa (possibly to mean his canonization or apotheosis) occurred is 311 BC, and that his career as a prophet and Aaronic Messiah belonged to the late fourth century BC, and not to the late fifth or early fourth centurs earlier surmised (see chapter four). </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>Kamal Salibihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00091044812296103900noreply@blogger.com71